Great interview we found, take the time to read it. You will learn a lot about American Bulldogs.
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David Farneti Interview By Tim Phaneuf
J.D.Johnson


The following is a question and answer interview with David Farnetti. The purpose of this interview is to dispel some myths and rumors and inform people about Dave, his dogs, and dogs of that era.

For some of you people who are not familiar with David Farnetti, here is a brief history. Dave is from upstate New York. He bred English Bulldogs in the 1970's and early 1980's, and bred American Bulldogs from the mid 80's until the mid 90's. Dave was the owner of "Dozer" and "Ruby." His breedings between the two produced many of the modern day great American Bulldogs breeders foundation dogs such as Dick the Bruiser II (Tiny), Elrod, MGK's Bam Bam, MGK's She's a "Doozy," Whitey and Dick the Cruiser.

Tim: Is there anything you would like to add?

Dave: Yes, a lot of dogs I bred are foundation stock for some of the more established breeders, but you forgot to mention your dog Jake and some of his offspring that were produced when he was bred to Whitey. One of which such dogs I sold to a man in Utah and turned into the biggest dog I ever produced.

Tim: What was the reason you discontinued your English Bulldog breeding program?

Dave: I quit affiliating myself with the English Bulldog because of their multitude of health problems. It was costing me a fortune to keep them alive. If you look at "The Complete English Bulldog" by Col. Bailey Haines, you will see old lithographs of what English Bulldogs used to be like and that was the type of dog I wanted as opposed to the modern day Bulldog. English Bulldogs of today are crosses between Old Bulldogs and Pugs. In the mid 1800's they got tired of messing with the cantankerous real Bulldog and wanted to downsize and exaggerate the features and make it a much friendlier dog. So they started crossing with the Pugs and they stumped it up and made it a much more manageable animal.

Tim: How did you find out about the American Bulldog?

Dave: I found an ad in "Dog World" magazine. Johns D. Johnson, Joe Painter and Steve LeClerc were the three breeders I talked to first. However, Mr. Johnson had the best reasons for why he had the dogs.

Tim: Who was your first American Bulldog?

Dave: It took a few years, but Dozer was my first. I purchased him from John D. Johnson, Dozer's father was "Machine Buckaroo" and his mother was "Sugar Doll" # 20".

Tim: What was your impression of Johnson's yard?

Dave: I thought Dozer's dad was an ugly dog, I really did, he was long in the snout, tall and lanky. Dozer was a carbon copy of his mother, I have pictures of both his parents. I think the closest comparison to Machine Buckaroo would be Elrod. The second dog I owned was Ruby. I picked her up from James Elerby in Philadelphia. I picked Ruby out of two puppies that survived out of the Bruiser Bo # 6 (Bo Bo) and Sugar Doll # 6. Bo Bo was definitely the biggest Bulldog I have ever seen, with a head like a Bison. Sugar Doll, a gorgeous female that I would have loved to own, was a very scrappy dog. She had a fight with one of her kennel mates " Champagne" two or three days before I saw her, she was all bit up. It was not a staged fight, it was because they got through the fence at one another, that's just typical Bulldog behavior.

Tim: How many times were Dozer and Ruby bred to one another?

Dave: Three times.

Tim: Were either of your dogs bred to different dogs? If so, to whom?

Dave: Dozer was bred to a dog from New York City - I can't remember the dog's name offhand. He was also bred to James Ellerbe's female Dutches, Ruby's blood sister, A lot of people think that Ruby and Dutches are out if the same litter, but they were NOT. Ruby was the only in her litter. Dozer was also bred to Dick O'Boyle's female Maggie and to Mike McDonalds dog Dot.

Ruby was also bred to Dozer like I said before, Ruby was also bred to Muscles. Actually Muscles II, a son of Ellerbe's Muscles and a dog named Champagne. Muscles was out of Bruiser Bo # 6 and Georgia Firecracker. Champagne was a dog that James had bought at a dog fight, she was a black dog no one knew the true breeding of her, one rumor was that she was half Pit Bull, half Labrador Retriever. I saw her and I would say she looked to be half Pit Bull and half Neapolitan Mastiff. Champagne was a very nasty, aggressive dog.

Tim: How big was Dozer?

Dave: Dozer with ribs showing was 125 lbs., when he was a year old. So when he was 3 in his peak he was probably 130 lbs. It was hard to get ribs showing on Dozer, especially since I had him outside all the time. I live in a very cold climate, so my dogs, well they would pork up in the winter.

Tim: A lot of people think Dozer was the consummate American Bulldog. What do you think of that statement?

Dave: ABSOLUTELY NOT! Dozer was probably one of the strongest, toughest dogs in the world. He also had to rank in the top 5 meanest and most dangerous. He was an incredibly dangerous dog, his disposition was not one I recommended or wanted to strive to produce. But he was predictable-predictably mean, and that's overkill, without a doubt he was overkill.

Tim: You have been opened and honest that Dozer had surgery. How many surgeries did he have and do you think it was because of genetic flaws?

Dave: The surgeries were on his knees and knees alone. He never had hip surgery, his hips were fine. Dozer grew at a ridiculously fast rate, thanks to me feeding him Eukanuba." As a matter of fact Dozer was part of a study at Cornell University of Veterinary Medicine telling that large bone dogs should not be fed high protein as puppies.

Tim: What would you recommend people feed their dogs?

Dave: Just plain dog food, you don't need to feed puppy food. The fat content is not an issue so a high fat diet is good, but I recommend keeping the protein content under 30%.

Tim: Due to your English Bulldog background what can you tell us about Westchamp's High Hopes, and do you feel he was instrumental in the modern day American Bulldog?

Dave: I have sent you pedigrees, you know, that Westchamp's High Hopes was out of two champion A.K.C. English Bulldogs (Snows Big Fairy Prince & Bulldog's Ego Trip of Daydel). He was insturmental in Dave Leavitt's Olde Bulldogge breeding program. John D. Johnson got a couple of females from him (Bullmead's Queen and Sugar Doll # 3). Westchamp's High Hopes is in Dozer's pedigree 4 times and in Ruby's twice.

Tim: Youbalready said Bruiser Bo # 6 was the biggest dog you ever saw, who were the biggest dogs you produced?

Dave: Elrod was probably the biggest male I produced. He was 110 lbs. at 10 months old when I gave him to Mr. Johnson. He was much bigger than his brother Tiny (Dick the Bruiser II), who was only about 95-100 lbs. filled out. Elrod could have touched 140 lbs. because he was tall. However, he didn't have the shape of Bo Bo, who was built like a Buffalo.

I believe the biggest female I ever produced would be Labet. Labet is a daughter of Jake (GWK's Big Jake Farnetti) and Whitey (Crimson's Miss White). Labet is a true 116 lbs. She is an absolutley gorgeous female, she is built like a male.

Tim: In your opinion who were the best Bulldogs you produced and why? (male and female)

Dave: I would have to say the best female I produced is the one in my yard Brindy. Brindy is another dog from Jake and Whitey litters, her personality, size. athleticism and control makes her the best female I ever produced.

Males, that's a tough call, but I have to say it would be Tiny (Dick the Bruiser II). I wish I never got rid of that dog. I thought he was the perfect specimen of a Bulldog. He had perfect structure, beautiful head, athletic, stocky, strong and quick. He was a great dog.

Tim: Out of all the Bulldogs you have seen in your lifetime, who was your personal favorite and for what reason?

Dave: Well, it's very difficult to give you the scope, but I would think, Dozer without a doubt was my favorite. He was my first and he was the best guard dog I have ever seen. But he was a dog that was only good if you were up in the mountains and you wanted a dog that would absolutley die for you. He was great in that way, he was also excellent with my children. With other children he was terrible. So that kicks him out of the leauge of being a great guard dog.

Jake I'd say is pound for pound as good a Bulldog as I have ever seen. And he is the fastest male I have ever seen. He's the hardest dog I have ever seen. He's got great character as you know - a heck of a personality. The only flea Jake could possibly have is he is a little cross-eyed, so he dosen't have the depth perception where you want it, but if that's all you can get wrong with a dog that's fine. I think he is an excellen example of a Bulldog.

I think for females, oh God, it's so hard to call. Ruby was probably my family favorite. She had all the courage that any dog could possibaly have. She would die for you in a heart beat. She was just excellent around people. She was just a great, great dog. However, I think Whitey was as good a female as there was in the breed. She was tough as nails yet she's lazy, and I like that. She's athletic but she's not hyper, she's very trackable and very easy going until it's time not to be, then she reminded me of Dozer in that way.

Again, I think the culmination of my breeding was when I bred Jake to Whitey and got Brindy. Brindy for me is what I want. She's bigger, faster, stronger than my other females and she is a sweetheart... and when I say sweetheart that's exactly what I want because all my dogs will take it on and take it on in a hurry. So I don't have to worry about courage in my dogs.

Tim: How do you feel the dogs of today compare with the dogs of 10, 15 years ago and beyond that?

Dave: Well, I think there has been way to much breeding of these dogs. I think there has been an over abundance of certain dogs and certain lines and I think there has been too much influx of breeding. I remember in the 80's you would see two or three ads in Dog World Magazine in a year or so, but you know, they flooded the pages with these Bulldogs and a lot of them are cross bred, but not all of them. The quality of the breed is fading because it has been handled in a non-professional and in a money making manner. People want to make money as opposed to bettering the breed. The only way you can better the breed is to come up with an idea of what you want the breed to be. People want dogs to look like Dozer, but should never really want a dog to act like Dozer.

Tim: What if anything, are breeders of today doing wrong and what could be done to rectify the situation?

Dave: I think there has to be more selective breeding and probably a slow down in the breeding process. Really get the Bulldog people together and define what they want. You have people that only want the dogs to look a certain way. When actually looks and temperament should be weighed equally. We all know there have been crosses of Pitbulls in these dogs, along with crosses of the Bull Mastiffs and Lord knows what else. You want a dog to look a certain way and more importantly to me act a certain way. We have to get rid of the riff-raff and junkyard trash mentality. They just have to go. They are going to take this breed to a level that nobody wants it to go to.

Tim: If you were still breeding dogs today, what would you be looking to do and what would you look for in the dogs that you were producing?

Dave: I would want a dog to look like a Bulldog. You would want a dog with an undershot jaw, good size wide head, solid body and I would really pay attention to athleticism and health. Finally and not lastly is temperament. I would look to breed dogs like Tiny and Jake, they would be great breeding dogs with respect to the temperament they have. You want dogs that are trackable. That will make the breed a pleasant breed for people of the future. We have got to get ourselves out of Medieval times - you don't need a Dozer like dog. You just don't.

Tim: When picking a puppy, what should people be looking for?

Dave: What I look for in a puppy is athleticism, when they are 5 or 6 weeks old you better make sure your puppy can get up on its back legs and jump around. If it can't you better believe something is wrong with it genetically. That's number 1. Number 2 is that you do not want a puppy that does not want to play. I've bred them, I've seen them, I've sold them, and I've given them away. A puppy that does not want to involve itself with its littermates or people is a massive accident waiting to happen.

Tim: Do you have any advice to give any potential Bulldog breeder / owner as far as how to raise your Bulldog to become a attribute to its family, and community? What type of training do you think these dogs require?

Dave: I am vehemently against protection training, I think it's a huge mistake! I did it with Dozer and you don't need to do it, if you have good Bulldog stock. Since the 12th century Bulldogs have been bred to protect and no training is going to make them any better (either they have what it takes or they do not). If anything it will just increase their ability to kill and these dogs just don't need to do that. My advise is to always treat these dogs like a big puppy.

Tim: Dave thank you very much for the interview and I'm sure a lot of us will benefit from your knowledge.




Interview with John D. Johnson by David D. Jackson, M.D, F.A.C.S.

INTRODUCTION:

I was very surprised when Casey asked me to do an interview with John D. Johnson because Casey and I have not seen exactly eye to eye on all issues concerning American bulldogs. I feel strongly, however, that we should all pull together for the betterment of the breed and that we should share information and promote the well-being of the breed any way we can. It is with some trepidation that I submit this interview for publication, and I hope that you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed hearing it firsthand from the man I consider to be the Father of the American Bulldog.

This interview took place in John D. Johnson's living room in Summerville, Georgia on January 7. We have just finished looking at all of John D.'s dogs that he currently owns in his backyard kennel. We have spent the last hour or so going through John D.'s scrapbooks which date back to the 1920's. I will state emphatically that the dogs in John D.'s backyard look exactly the same as the early photographs he has shown me, dating back well over 45 years. The walls of his living room are covered with old photographs of famous dogs such as the Incredible Hulk, King Kong, Dick the Bruiser, and Johnson's Bobo. There is a huge, beautiful blown up photograph of Elrod which was enlarged by digital processing over his mantlepiece. I see trophies from old dog shows on the mantle and in the center is an enormous brass-studded leather collar which measures 34 inches in circumference. Mildred, John D.'s wife, has just fixed us all a delicious Georgia pecan pie. This interview is being tape recorded and witnessed by two other bulldog enthusiasts. Lets listen to what John D. has to say.

Dr. J.: "John D., what is that large collar on the mantle?"

John D.: "That collar belonged to the largest bulldog I ever owned, Bruiser Bo, and it measures 34 inches in circumference. Bruiser Bo weighed over 175 pounds and was one of my all time favorite dogs. After Bruiser Bo died, I kept his collar and have been trying to fill it with a dog his size ever since. A few have come close but I have never been able to fill that collar again. Maybe someday I will, but until that time comes, I will leave the collar on the mantle."

Dr. J.: "Where and when were you born?"

John D.: "I was born July 15, 1924, six miles from Summerville."

Dr. J.: "Have you lived in Summerville your whole life?"

John D.: "Yes."

Dr. J.: "What did you do for a living?"

John D.: "I started off working in gardens, mowing lawns, working in grocery stores, driving a school bus, and then I went to work for the Bigelow Carpet Factory and retired from there six years ago. Basically, I was trying to earn enough money to feed my dogs and my family."

Dr. J.: "How do you get 83 years breeding?"

John D.: "My father got his first bulldog when he was 14 years old and he raised bulldogs most of his life."

Dr. J.: "What was your father's name?"

John D.: "John W. Johnson, and he was born near Summerville also."

Dr. J.: "How influential was your father in helping you to become interested in bulldogs?"

John D.: "My father was very influential because he always had bulldogs around the house and bred them. He also allowed me to get my first bulldog when I was three years old. He was very influential in other ways, as well, and frequently caused me to have to sleep on my stomach."

Dr. J.: "How did you get interested and started in raising bulldogs?"

John D.: "My father took me to see a man who had a new litter of bulldogs when I was three years old. He told me to pick one out, and I remember to this day reaching down and
picking up a nice, big fat male puppy. That was the first mistake I ever made. I should have picked up a female, but I'm sure my father would not have allowed me to have a female anyway. I named the dog Prince and he became my best friend. I spent my early childhood playing with Prince throughout the farmlands, swamps, and riverbeds surrounding Summerville. Prince was my best friend and a great dog, and it was here that I began to appreciate the close bond that can form between a man and a dog. Prince also gave me the realization that a real bulldog is capable of saving a man' s life. While playing along the riverbed one day, I stepped on a large, funny looking snake. The snake turned to bite me but Prince was quick as a cat and crushed the snake's head. It turned out to be a cottonmouth mocassin. Following that, Prince killed many snakes in the years to come and was never bitten himself by a cottonmouth. I grew up around cattle and would enjoy watching Prince catch a bull whenever my father was not looking. I got my first bitch when I was 14 years old and this is when I went into business for myself breeding bulldogs. My father didn't think too highly of it at the time because in those days you were lucky if you could get five dollars for a bulldog. My first breeding was between my female, Patsy Montana and Prince's brother. There is still a little bit of Prince left in my dogs today."

Dr. J.: "Were the bulldogs of your childhood the same as the bulldogs you have now?"

John D.: "My dogs now are the same as the real good large ones that were around when I was a child."

Dr. J.: "Did you ever breed or were you ever involved with any other type of dog?"

John D.: I used to raise Red Bone hounds that I used to hunt with my bulldogs but I had to give that up. My bulldogs just didn't like those hounds and if they were going after a wild hog and the hounds got in their way, they were just as likely to kill the hound as catch the hog. Bulldogs just don't like other dogs."

Dr. J.: "Where did the name "American Pit Bulldog" come from?"

John D.: "This was the name that we originally called these dogs when I was a young man. They were known by other names as well, such as Old Country White, English White, Old Time Bulldog, but probably the most common name was American Pit Bulldog, and when we first started registering these dogs, this was the name we used. it became apparent to me, however, that many people were confusing the American bulldog with the American pit bull terrier because their names were so similar, and so I talked to Tom Stodgill who was the founder of the Animal Research Foundation, which was the registry that I was using, and we decided to change the name officially to American Bulldog. These dogs were originally called American Pit Bulldogs because they were used in the pit to fight other dogs and also especially other large animals. They were differentiated from the American pit bull terrier, however, because there was no terrier blood infused. The infusion of terrier blood brought the size of these dogs down to a more manageable size for handling in the pit and also made it much easier to snatch the dog up, hide him under your coat when you were running from the law, if you got raided fighting dogs. The strength, gameness, and heart, however, all came from the bulldog."

Dr. J.: "Did you ever show your dogs?"

John D.: "Yes, I showed them in the National Kennel Club shows and a few AKC sanctioned shows. King Kong was the first American bulldog to ever become a double champion. I also judged in some of the shows."

Dr. J.: "When is the last time you ever bred one of your dogs to a bulldog that was not considered a pure Johnson dog from your original lines?"

John D.: "Twenty-two ears ago was the last time. I received a puppy from a breeding between one of my females and another bulldog."

Dr. J.: "We'll follow up on this breeding in a later question. Is there a difference in Old Time Johnson and modern Johnson, and where did that term come from?"

John D.: "There is absolutely no difference in my old dogs and my modern dogs. The dogs I have now came from the dogs I had then. I believe that term originated from someone who thought my old dogs were better than my new dogs, and after much thought, I believe I know what he was talking about. When I was a younger man, I was able to keep my dogs well conditioned whereas now they spend most of their time in a pen. I have a large area of land down below the house that extends all the way to the river, and I used to take an old farm vehicle and drive around and around that area of land with the dogs running beside my vehicle. They could easily run five or six miles a day without getting winded and they could reach speeds of 25 miles an hour. So I guess my dogs in those days did look and were better conditioned. As far as I am concerned, however, other than conditioning, there is no difference between Old Time Johnson and modern Johnson."

Dr. J.: "What are the main Johnson lines now?"

John D.: "My dogs now are all mixtures of the early dogs, but I have tried to keep some of the more famous dogs, lines somewhat more separate for breeding purposes. Some of these famous lines are King Kong, Bruiser Bo, Red Machine, Incredible Hulk, Dick the Bruiser, Mean Machine and Aristocrat."

Dr. J.: "How do you keep all these lines separate and how are you able to keep up with these various different lines?"

John D.: "The females carry the same name as the mother to daughter and the name is passed down in that fashion. In other words, I am up to Collette 101 at this point and that dog's mother was Collette and the dog before that, so that I know that the line has come originally down from my Collette dog. The females down from Aristocrat all have Rose in their name, so you'll see Johnson's Rose, Rose Lee, Rosemary, etc. The Incredible Mean Machine line has machine in its name, so we see dogs such as Machine Brutis, Red Machine, Mean Machine, etc."

Dr. J.: "How do you avoid inbreeding with so few dogs out there?"

John D.: "My policy has always been to never breed any closer than half-brother to half-sister. Usually, my breeding will go no closer than dogs sharing the same grandparent."

Dr. J.: "What type of dog food do you use?"

John D.: "I have been using Diamond, usually the black bag but sometimes the green bag if the dogs look like they are getting a little fat. I have been extremely happy with this brand of dog food. It seems as though my dogs like the taste of it better than any dog food I have ever used and also it is soy free, and I have found this to be very important in preventing gastric bloat or torsion. I have had no problems with bloat since switching to a soy free dog food."

Dr. J.: "Did you ever breed to any other large dog such as a Bull Mastiff or St. Bernard to gain size?"

John D.: "No. These dogs have always been large."

Dr. J.: "Did you ever add American Pit Bull Terrier to increase gameness?"

John D.: "No. The American Pit Bull Terrier got its gameness in the first place from the American Bulldog."

Dr. J.: "Did you ever breed to an AKC registered English Bulldog?"

John D.: "I have heard all types of rumors and stories that this is so and I would like to set the record straight. Mack the Masher was a fine American Bulldog that was owned by Allen Scott. He was an excellent catch dog and long legged and rangy. His muzzle was a little bit longer than average. He was purchased by Allen Scott from Sales Axley in Big Sand Mountain, Alabama. Sales Axle'y never registered any of his dogs and he called them Old English Whites. Nobody was ever going to tell Sales Axley that his dogs weren't English Bulldogs. If there ever was any pedigree associated with Mack the Masher, then Allen Scott concocted it out of his own imagination. My dogs have always been registered with either the National Kennel Club or the Animal Research Foundation and how far their pedigrees go back on dogs which I never owned I cannot tell you. I did, however, think Mack the Masher was a fine bulldog and I did breed to him. There is no way, however, that Mack the Masher had any English Bulldog in him. Over 20 years ago, a man named David Levitt decided that he would improve the English Bulldog and he decided to invent the Olde English Bulldogge. Initially, he tried breeding a Bull Mastiff with an American Pit Bull Terrier and English Bulldog. He was not able to arrive at the dog he desired and contacted me. He came down and looked at my dogs and decided that he would like to use one of my females in further experimentation to improve and perfect the Olde English Bulldoggee. I leased him a female for his use. Later on in his search, David Levitt found a dog in Massachusetts which was owned by a girl up there and was an AKC registered English Bulldog male that weighed 95 pounds and was called West Champs High Hopes. David Levitt bred my female to this dog and the resultant litters produced the dog that he was looking for. If you will look in the book "Fighting Dogs" by Carl Semenic, you will see the picture of a large white bulldog that was one of these pups. This English Bulldog, West Champs High Hopes, was evidently a throw back to the original bulldogs, being more long-legged and weighing 95 pounds. He sent me a picture of this dog and it was a very impressive looking dog. He asked me if I wanted one of the puppies and he sent me a very nice female pup which I named Gail after David Levitt's wife. She grew up to be a 125 pound female and was just gorgeous. I bred her back to the Incredible Hulk and with this started the Incredible Mean Machine line. You have to remember that the English Bulldog and the American Bulldog were exactly the same dog 200 years ago, and every once in awhile a throw back English Bulldog will be born which is the same as the old bulldogs were. I could see nothing wrong with breeding a bulldog to a bulldog. I was not trying to deceive anyone and the pedigree of these dogs clearly shows this dog's name and the fact that he was an AKC registered English Bulldog. If a man is going to be honest, he is going to be honest to a fault. I could have changed these pedigrees and no one would have known anything about it, except for me, Mildred, and the good Lord. The Incredible Mean Machine line of my dogs has probably become the most famous and sought after line of all. I have heard it said that the English Bulldog is not the original pure bulldog bred down in size, but a cross between the English Bulldog and a Pug. I do not believe this to be the case for many reasons, and I believe the English Bulldog is a result of simply breeding the dog down in size, exaggerating the features through breeding, and, unfortunately, breeding his heart out. I do not believe that a 15 pound pug was ever crossed in the 17th or the 18th Century with a 100 or 120 pound bulldog. I do not believe that this was possible in those days, since they did not know artificial insemination. Also, the Pug has a black mask which never ever appears in an English Bulldog or an American Bulldog. Also, the Pug has a screw tail which screws over his back in a different fashion, occasionally, when an American Bulldog does have a curvature in his tail, it is a pumphandle type curvature which is totally different than that seen on the Pug. I have had American Bulldogs throw pump-handle tails for the last 60-70 years, long before I bred to West Champs High Hopes. Pit Bull Terriers will also occasionally throw a pump-handle tail, and I think that this originated from the early American Bulldogs which were used to create the American Pit Bull Terrier."

Dr. J.: "What is the Alapaha Bulldog?"

John D.: "I really don't know what it is. I do know that I sold Lana Lane a dog several years ago and she told me that she bred it to some South Georgia bulldogs. I have seen one of her dogs and I thought it was an excellent looking bulldog. I have heard from other sources that the colors of some of her dogs are not typical for the American Bulldog."

Dr. J.: "Were there any other influential early breeders of American Bulldogs other than yourself?"

John D.: "The only other man I can think of that was breeding bulldogs at the same time that I was is a man named Louie Hedgewood."

Dr. J.: "What about the other names of breeders that we hear, such as Scott, Williamson, and Bailey?"

John D.: "These breeders came along much later. I helped Allen Scott get started back in the mid 60's. I gave him two fine female bulldogs and expected some money in return when he started selling puppies. I never did receive any, however. I do know that Allen Scott bought many dogs from around the area and into Alabama that to me were of questionable lineage. He did have one fine dog, Mack the Masher, which I did breed to. Many of the dogs he bought had cropped ears and looked like they had a lot of American Pit Bull Terrier in them. One dog he had to me looked like it was mostly Great Dane. Joe Painter finally bought his dogs in the mid to late 70's, and he told me personally that out of 75 dogs he had bought, only six were considered by him to be good bulldogs. I knew Bailey and to my knowledge he only bred three or four litters in all and this was done in the 70's. As far as Williamson, this was also in the 70's and he only bred a very few dogs."

Dr. J.: "Who were the early bulldogs that you began your kennel with?"

John D.: "I was really only a small time breeder between the age of 14 and when I went away to fight in WWII. During WWII my family kept the dogs that we had until I returned from the war. When I returned from the war, I decided that I would like to preserve this breed. When I was younger, bulldogs were very plentiful, but when I returned from WWII, they had become quite scarce. I decided to buy the very best bulldogs that I could find to begin my own kennel, but I was limited financially as to how many dogs I could buy and adequately care for. The dogs I did purchase at this time I tried to make the very best and so between 1949 and the early 1950's, I purchased some dogs that to me represented the largest, strongest, and best American Bulldogs that I could find. One of my best early foundation dogs was Johnson's Bobo and he came from Calhoun, Georgia. Another one was Bobo Jr. which was his son and came from Bobo and Goldie. Goldie was a dog that I had in my family and had raised before WWII. Another dog I purchased was Johnson's Toppie. She also came from Calhoun. The original Sandman I bought in Lookout Mountain, Tennessee. Sissy was a female in my family that I had bred as was Lady Toppie, Tuffy, Frosty, and Big Red. Two other dogs that were in my family were Black Jack and Blondie. Dick the Bruiser came along later and I purchased him around 1956 or 57. I bought him from Harold Lassiter on Big Sand Mountain in Alabama. He was a catch dog and one of my all time favorites."

Dr. J.: "If there were no written pedigrees in those days, how could you be certain that you were getting a pure blooded American Bulldog?"

John D.: "The only way you could be sure was to first inspect the dog as far as his appearance and his temperament and try to determine his physical capabilities. Following that, I would breed the dog and make sure that the puppies he produced were correct. If they were, then I could be fairly certain it was a pure American Bulldog. From 1950 on, I had my dogs registered with either the NKC or the ARF. Also, the dogs that were in my family I knew were pure bulldogs going back another 40 years or so."

Dr. J: "How did you choose the Animal Research Foundation as the registry?"

John D.: "Initially, I used the National Kennel Club and showed my dogs in their dog shows and was a judge in some. I was not happy, however, with the registry and felt that they were registering American Bulldogs that were not truly American Bulldogs. Also, I had the feeling that some of the dog shows were being rigged. I have been very happy with the Animal Research Foundation and have found them to be totally honest and scrupulous."

Dr. J.: "Who was your favorite dog of all?"

John D.: "I really don't have a favorite dog, although I have several that I would have to say were my favorites. If I could pick one dog to be possibly the best all around American Bulldog I have ever owned, it probably would be Bruiser Bo. However, there were several dogs that I would have to say were also my favorites including my first dog Prince, King Kong, Bobo Jr., Elrod, Dick the Bruiser, Aristocrat, and the Incredible Hulk."

Dr. J.: "Back to the other breeders such as Baily, Scott, and Williamson. Did you ever trade dogs back and forth with these men?"

John D.: "No, I never traded dogs back and forth with any of them. I gave Allen Scott two females and I bred to his dog Mack the Masher."

Dr. J.: "Did you know Joe Painter?"

John D.: "Yes, I knew Joe Painter and I knew that he did buy Allen Scott's dogs. Joe Painter was a dog fighter and raised and fought American Pit Bull Terriers. I know that he did have some trouble with the law but do not know the circumstances of this."

Dr. J.: "Did Joe Painter ever cross his America Bulldogs with his American Pit Bull Terriers?"

John D.: "Joe Painter told me that he never crossed them, however his neighbor said he did."

Dr. J.: "Would you ever consider now crossing your dogs to the lines out there, such as Scott?"

John D.: "No. I know that many breeders are now crossing my dogs with various other strains. I think that this is bound to make their strains better. If I was going to recommend purchasing an American Bulldog, however, I would want the dog to be at least 3/4 Johnson and probably 7/8 would be better. I have worked for many, many years to try to maintain the purity of my American Bulldogs and I know where most of the other strains came from, and I would not want to take the chance of infusing some other inferior breed . There is no breed of dog that you can mix with the American Bulldog to improve him. In my opinion, he is the best breed of dog in the world and his blood has been used many, many times down through the centuries to improve other breeds with his blood."

Dr. J.: "Do you think your dogs are too inbred?"

John D.: "No. I have tried to maintain the purity of my dogs lines through careful line breeding without resorting to inbreeding."

Dr. J.: "Have you had problems with your dogs attributed to genetic inbreeding such as hip dysplasia?"

John D.: "I have only had to replace six dogs for hip dysplasia in the past 50 years and two of those I believe were questionable. Now, my policy is that if the dog may have hip dysplasia, it should be returned to me so that I can have my own veterinarian x-ray the dog and ascertain if this problem is present. I replaced two dogs and found out later that the dogs I hips that I replaced were fine."

Dr. J.: "What about other problems such as tumors?"

John D.: "Tumors are more prevalent now in dogs of all breeds. In my opinion is not due to genetic inbreeding but due to the type of food that we feed them now. In the old days, our dogs ate what we ate. If we had pintos and collard greens for supper, the dogs had the same. When I raised puppies, Mildred would fix up a big bowl of oatmeal. Dogs in those days seemed to live longer and have less problems with tumors. Now days we feed dogs commercially produced dog food, and I can't help but think that many of the chemicals that are used in food processing have some bearing on the increased frequency in tumors. Also, the meat-based dog food which should be used contains many times meat from animals that are not fit for human consumption and this is why they end up in dog food rather than on your kitchen table."

Dr. J.: "What do you think the ideal size bulldog is?"

John D.: "I have always said that I wanted a bulldog large enough that I could throw a saddle over. I think that the ideal size is really the size that would best suit the job that you want this dog to perform. Since these dogs are primarily used for protection now, I feel that a larger, stronger, heavier boned dog is more suitable for this task."

Dr. J.: "What do you think the ideal under bite is?"

John D.: "It depends a lot on the size of the dog, but in a very large American Bulldog such as Elrod, I like the lower jaw to protrude approximately one inch. In the smaller, 100 pound American Bulldogs, I think about 1/2 inch is correct."

Dr. J.: "What do you think about the even or scissors bite?"

John D.: "I do not think that a scissors bite is correct in the American Bulldog. These dogs have always been large catch dogs for centuries and in order for a bulldog to grab hold of a bull's lip or nose, the canine teeth need to be separated so that there are four areas of tissue that literally need to be torn through rather than a tight slice which the dogs, teeth will do in a scissors bite. Bulldogs have amazingly powerful jaw muscles and they would be capable of slicing through tissue easily if their teeth matched up perfectly as most dogs do with a scissors bite."

Dr. J.: "Have you ever seen the lower jaw fractured or dislocated when you used your dogs to catch bulls or hogs?"

John D.: "No."

Dr. J.: "What is your ideal or favorite color."

John D.: "I would have to say solid white, but I like all the colors of the American Bulldog and I feel that it is the dog's overall conformation which makes him beautiful rather than the color. I never look at the dog's color when selecting a puppy."

Dr. J.: "I know you raised prize-winning Angus cattle for years. Did you use your American Bulldogs in raising cattle?"

John D.: "Yes, I used them frequently. Mildred used Black Jack to help herd the cattle into the barn, but the dogs instinctively will go for the bull's nose and are very useful in catching and holding an unruly bull or steer. Other neighboring farmers would sometimes request that I use my bulldogs in helping them catch and hold an unruly bull, and I remember one instance in which it took three bulldogs to pin him, one on his nose, one on his tongue, and one holding onto his ear."

Dr. J.: "Did you ever hunt wild boar with your dogs?"

John D.: "I used to frequently hunt wild hogs when I was a younger man. These were actually domestic or feral type hogs that probably did have some wild boar infused. The boar would commonly have large tusks. The largest one I ever caught, its tusks measured 7 1/2 inches."

Dr. J.: "Did you use a bay dog first?"

John D.: "I started using Red Bone Hounds but had so much trouble with my bulldogs killing my Hounds that I switched over to just bulldogs and used them to run the hogs down and catch them also. These dogs have tremendous stamina when they are conditioned and even the large dogs can run the hog down, go in and catch the hog. This is much harder on them, of course, than first baying the hog and then putting the fresh bulldog in on the hog."

Dr. J.: "Did your dogs catch the hogs by the ear?"

John D.: "No. My dogs have always caught the hog by the nose. There is a tender place in the hog's nose that farmers use to control hogs. You can place a tight wire around this area on the nose and attach this to a pipe and simply twist it and control the hog. A ring in the hog's nose will keep him from tearing up areas that you don't want because this is also very tender. My dogs would attack the hog straight on, grab them by the nose and pin them exactly the same as they did the bulls. I never lost a single dog in this fashion, and the dogs seemed to have excellent control over the hog."

Dr. J.: "Did you or did you know of anyone actively dog fighting your dogs?"

John D.: "I never participated in any type of dog fighting and I would never sell my dogs to anyone that I knew might do so. I do know that one man that I sold two dogs to in the Miami area did fight them, but when I found out about it, I never sent him anymore dogs."

Dr. J.: "What do you tell people who buy a pup about raising them?"

John D.: "I always tell people to love them, take care of them, and obedience train them. I feel that obedience training these dogs is very important in establishing the correct human/dog dominance relationship. I strongly advise against protection training these dogs because I f eel that they are aggressive and protection oriented enough. The majority of dogs that I have had returned to me over the years have been returned following protection training. I feel that these dogs can be trained from a protection or Shuntzund type standpoint, but I think that the dog trainer must be very highly skilled. These dogs can be extremely ferocious towards any animal and to direct this degree of fury towards a human being is dangerous. I know of no quicker way to ruin one of these dogs than to Place him in the hands of a less-than-expert dog trainer who trains him to attack human beings."

Dr. J.: "How do you decide which puppy to keep?"

John D.: "I try to make a judgment of the puppys around the seventh or eighth week. For me to keep a puppy I like for him to have everything, including size, confirmation, and temperament. I have been a dog judge before and having worked with bulldogs for so many years now, I know when I see a puppy that catches my eye."

Dr. J.: "When you first started selling your dogs right after WWII, how much did you get for a puppy?"

John D.: "Forty-five dollars."

Dr. J.: "What is the most that you have ever received for a puppy?"

John D.: "Two thousand five hundred dollars."

Dr. J.: "What is the most money you have ever turned down for a dog?"

John D.: "I was contacted by a broker a couple of years ago who wanted to purchase for an individual, and I don't know the man's name as I only dealt with his broker. He offered me $50,000.00 for Elrod and $50,000.00 for Collette. I told him these dogs were not for sale and I felt that I would rather own a $50,000.00 dog than let somebody else own him. Mildred, my wife, wouldn't speak to me for two days."

Dr. J.: "Why were American Bulldogs plentiful when you were a child but after WWII they became scarce and now are extremely rare?"

John D.: "I believe they became scarce in this country for essentially the same reason they became extinct in England. In the early part of this century and in the century before, we used these dogs on our farms and they were a real asset in working cattle and to a lesser extent hogs. As time has gone on, our cities have enlarged and there are fewer and fewer small farms. In essence, the dog has lost his job. The Bulldog is the original working dog and his purpose is to do a job. When the job disappears, he no longer has a reason for existing. Now, with crime on the increase, the Bulldog is once again finding a new job and so we are seeing a complete resurgence in his popularity. Another reason that the Bulldog became very scarce is that he does not lend himself to a kennel type situation easily. These dogs are very dog-aggressive and do not live together well. Even when bulldogs were more plentiful, almost everyone that had one only had one or occasionally a pair, male and female. Almost no one had two males or two females because they could not get along with each other. I have always loved the American Bulldog and when I saw that he was becoming very scarce after WWII, I dedicated my life to preserving this breed. I feel very strongly that any animal that is willing to die for his master is worth preserving. I have countless stories of instances where over the years American Bulldogs have saved my life and the lives of my family. Johnson I s Bobo once saved me from a bull that had broken out of its pasture. Dick the Bruiser saved Mildred from a pack of wild dogs, and also a man that came to our house with a gun. I know you have heard the story of the fire that almost reached our house. I was able to get most of my dogs out in time, but two dogs stayed behind and actually fought the blazing fire as it approached my house. I know all animals are instinctively afraid of fire, but these dogs gladly would give their life to protect us. They were horribly burned and it took months for them to recuperate, but they always had a home with me following that incredible exhibition of courage."

Dr. J.: "If you had it to do all over again, would you change anything?"

John D.: "The only thing that I would change if I could is that back right after WWII I wish I had been a rich man and could have afforded more foundation dogs so that there would be more blood lines today."

Dr. J.: "Do you have any words of advice for the new breeders?"

John D.: " I would say start with the good ones and breed the good ones to the good ones . Don It try to change the breed and be very careful to not let show judging influence the dogs."

Dr. J.: "Why do you think dog shows have ruined so many breeds?"

John D.: "The very nature of the dog show is somewhat detrimental to the bulldog. Dog shows are for an audience to see dogs competing in a beauty contest. American Bulldogs can participate in dog shows, but I would never want them to have to sit side by side as in so many other dog show breed contests. Judges need to make certain allowances to take into consideration the bulldog's temperament. A bulldog that growls at the judge should not be disqualified. A bulldog that is dog-aggressive or tries to get to the dog sitting next to him should not be disqualified. I believe that the heart of the bulldog is so strong that in order for the American Bulldog to lose this quality, it would have to be purposefully bred out. I believe that it was purposefully bred out in the English Bulldog to allow these dogs to sit side by side in a dog show. Another facet of the dog show that we must all guard against is to try to keep various features from becoming exaggerated and allowing dogs with more exaggerated features to win. A perfect example would be the hips in the German Shepherd. The early German Shepherd's rear end looked normal but for some reason it was felt more attractive if the dog's rear end drooped somewhat and now trying to breed German Shepherds to have this appearance has caused a rash of hip dysplasia. I believe that my bulldogs are as good now as they were 83 years ago because I have not tried to change them in any way. I have tried to maintain their heart, their desire to please, their ability to bond closely with their human family, and most important of all their ability to sacrifice their own life to protect that of their family."

Dr. J.: "John D. , I have thoroughly enjoyed this interview. Every time I see my bulldog's smiling faces when I come home from work, I am most grateful to you for preserving the finest breed of dog in the world. Do you have any final words of wisdom for the people who will read this interview?"

John D.: "They say that dog is man's best friend but they are wrong. Man is dog's best friend. But a dog that will lay down his life to protect his master is a man's best friend, and a dog that will turn and run at the threat of danger is no friend at all."




INTERVIEW WITH BENTON READ
BY LEASTER R. HOLLOWAY
Summer, 1999

LRH: What is your name?

BBR: Benton B. Read.

LRH: How many years have you been breeding American Bulldogs?

BBR: Seven.

LRH: Who did you buy your first American Bulldog from?

BBR: Mike McDonald.

LRH: What did you think about John D. Johnson's kennel?

BBR: He had the most prominent kennel set that time. He also had the best looking dogs.

LRH: What about Kyle Symmes Kennel?

BBR: I only met Mr. Symmes once and had no dealings with his kennel.

LRH: What lines did you go for and why?

BBR: When I started I was not looking at lines. I bought a dog out of Red Machine 3 because I liked the red color.

LRH: Why a Mean Machine daughter instead of a Red Machine daughter?

BBR: I already had a dog from the Red Machine. I liked the way Mean Machine looked with the two dark eye patches.

LRH: What were the size of Mean Machine and Red Machine?

JDJ: Mean Machine weighed about 140 pounds, and Red Machine I would have to guess, 130-140.

LRH: Did American Bulldogs have a lot of color back then?

BBR: Yes.

LRH: Please describe Tuffie 26 and Casey to us.

BBR: Tuffie looked like the Mean Machine, only at 100 pounds. Casey looked like most of the Red Machine line, 100 pounds and lots of red color and one dark eye patch.

LRH: Did you like what you were producing?

BBR: Yes! Casey and Tuffie produced some outstanding puppies.

LRH: What happened to Casey?

BBR: He died of cancer in July, 1997.

LRH: How do you feel about Casey?

BBR: He was my best friend and I miss him every day.

LRH: Did you keep a son or daughter?

BBR: No.

LRH: Why did you decide to breed Tuffie 26, AKA "Beth", to Dick the Bruiser #3, AKA "BUSTER"?

BBR: I had three litters with Casey and wanted to see what Tuffie could produce with another stud dog. I liked Buster's size and the red brindle.

LRH: Were you pleased with the breeding?

BBR: Very pleased!

LRH: Who was the biggest pup?

BBR: Bruiser.

LRH: Did you keep a pup from that breeding, and if so why?

BBR: I kept what is now Sugar Tuffie 27, and Johnson's Machine Bruiser. I kept Sugar because she was the only red puppy in the litter, and she was a female. I kept Bruiser in the beginning because when he was a puppy, he was so funny looking nobody wanted him. After a while we became attached to one another and I couldn't part with him. He grew up to be a fine puppy, and several people have told me, they kick themselves for passing him up when they had the chance to buy him..

LRH: You produced Johnson's Sugar Tuffie's 27, 50, 51 and Johnson's Machine Bruiser?

BBR: Yes.

LRH: Why didn't you keep Sugar Tuffie 50?

BBR: John D. and I had a deal. If he wanted a female puppy from the litter he could have whatever he wanted in return for a stud fee. He also took a second female for the same price. I had already paid the stud fee, he just gave it back, paid the same for the second puppy.

LRH: If you could go back in time now, would you keep Sugar Tuffie 50?

BBR: No, she was easily the best female in the litter, but she was all white. I like color. I knew John D. liked this type puppy and could do more with it than me.

LRH: Did you ever breed to Dick the Bruiser #3 again?

BBR: No.

LRH: Did you ever breed Tuffie 26 again?

BBR: No.

LRH: Is Tuffie 26 still alive?

BBR: As of today, very much so.

LRH: How do you feel about Sugar Tuffie 50 and 51's decedents, and who they're bred to?

BBR: They have both produced some outstanding puppies. I am very proud of them and their descendants. I don't know how all the litters were bred, so I can't really comment.

LRH: Did you breed Sugar Tuffie 27?

BBR: Yes, to Elrod Jr.

LRH: Why to Johnson's Elrod Jr.?

BBR: Pedigree and color.

LRH: Did you keep a puppy from that breeding, if so why?

BBR: Yes, one male, red brindle.

LRH: What does Dick the Bruiser 26, AKA "Buster" look like?

BBR: Red brindle Bulldog.

LRH: How about in size and conformation?

BBR: Very well put together.

LRH: Will you use him in the future?

BBR: Most likely.

LRH: Have you bred Johnson's Machine Bruiser?

BBR: No.

LRH: (Question # 33) Why not?

BBR: No one has approached me about breeding him that has a suitable female, one that I believe would improve the breed, not just create more puppies.

LRH: What does he look like? Details please!

BBR: Mostly white with dark brindle spots. 132 pounds, 26 inches tall, 13 inch chest, very Bulldoggy, great temperament.

LRH: Are you planning to breed him in the future?

BBR: Maybe, refer to question # 33.

LRH: How do you feel about the color issue?

BBR: I like dogs with a lot of color.

LRH: What about size of the American Bulldog?

BBR: I prefer larger well built dogs, the total package. Everything has to be there or big doesn't matter. Males 100-140, females 90-120.

LRH: How come you don't show your dogs?

BBR: I do show my dogs. I show them to John D., he says it's a Bulldog. That's all I need to know. My dogs or myself have nothing to prove in the show ring. We'll both stand on our own merit.

LRH: What stud dog will you use next for Sugar Tuffie 27?

BBR: I haven't decided at this time.

LRH: Who will you get your next Sugar Tuffie from, and why?

BBR: Me. I'll keep the puppies I want. Why, because I know exactly what I'm getting.

LRH: What's the secret for breeding HUGE and AWESOME dogs?

BBR: Buy the best females you can find. Breed to the best stud dog you can find. Not the closest, the cheapest, even the biggest or to the one in your backyard. Look at the pedigrees find the type you want. Not the flavor of the month or what somebody else wants, what you want. Your name will be on the pedigree, those dogs are yours forever. Produce the best you can. Lastly, you need a good deal of luck!

LRH: Thank you for your time Ben Read!



John D. Johnson Interview By Vito Alu

Introduction

I arrived at Mr. Johnson's farm at noon May 11, 1997 it was a very hot sunny Georgia day. I got out of the car
and all of his dogs are racing back and forth in their yards and barking at me. Mr. Johnson comes out to greet me and we walk throughout his yard looking at all his dogs. When we finish looking at all of his dogs I set up inside and got started.

First of all I would like to thank you for agreeing to do this interview. In doing research on the American Bulldogs I have spoken to many people about these dogs and I have to say that you have been the most gracious and the most helpful. I want to thank you sir for spending all the time on the phone and in person sharing your knowledge and experience with me. Let me state also for the record that to date I have not purchased an American Bulldog from you, nor do I own a pure Johnson dog. I consider you a good friend, but I think you will attest to the fact that when it comes to these dogs I take my research very seriously after all I'm from Missouri the Show-Me state. I need proof and I try to go on proven facts. I would also like to state for the record, that I like good dogs from every line, if they are good I can appreciate their soundness and athleticism. I just prefer sound, athletic American Bulldogs with Johnson type, in that way I am slightly bias. Having said that lets get started.

VAA: Mr. Johnson most American Bulldog enthusiasts have read your last interview with Dr. David Jackson, so they know your father had American Bulldogs, and that because of your father you obtain your first American Bulldog at an early age. What I would like to know is what was the American Bulldog used for in your father's day? What reason would a farmer or rancher have for keeping one of these dogs?

JDJ: Well, in the olden times there wasn't real good fences, when any of your livestock would get out you
needed a dog that was powerful enough and had the grit to catch. I know dad would always tell me a story of when he was a boy, that his mother was out there in their field, she was going to get some sweet potatoes, she was out there digging them and didn't see that their big Jersey bull had gotten out and was heading straight for her. Their bulldog saw it and my dad saw it and headed in the house to fetch his gun, when he came out with his gun he saw his dog had met the bull before it got to his mother, and was fighting him good and finally whipped that bull away from her. Throwing a big bull that was one thing they were needed for, they also needed them for protection of the family and home. They also caught wild hogs with them there where a lot of wild hogs back then, that's were they got lots of their meat was from wild hogs. I also remember a story he told me about a female bulldog they had once and she had puppies there one time, she would always go to the fields where they worked. Well one day they were working and she picked up and started for home, they just thought she was going home to check on her puppies, but there was a boy in the house stealing meal, corn meal, of course nobody had much to steal back then. Well when they came home they found corn meal and blood all over the kitchen, she had ate that boy up real bad. He made it home and his daddy came down and told my granddaddy about it, he explained to him what happened. Granddaddy said when the boy gets healed send him back. He said "No sir, he won't be back here at all. None of us will. It took that boy two weeks before he could get out of bed. That was what the bulldog was used for, such as that, to protect you, your property and to catch with. Some people even used them for hunting and treeing
or even retrieve like a Labrador. They were useful in killing wild predators or wild dogs that may be after any
animal that you owned. That's where they got the term gangbuster. They were a general all-purpose dog. Whatever you needed, they were willing to do it. My father also told me that a lot of men pit fought them in his day, although he never did anything like that with his dogs.

VAA: Did the American Bulldog of your youth vary a lot throughout the South in size and type?

JDJ: Not as bad as they do today. There was big ones, medium sized ones and what I call small 80 lb. and
under. They were of different sizes but they all looked alike, they were not like they are now where some have heavy bone, broad-chests, square heads like a bulldog and some have long muzzles, narrow headed and fine boned. The bulldog looked like a bulldog and anytime you saw one you knew what it was, a lot of times now with some of these dogs they look like some other breed. But back then, there was a variation in size. There were some real big ones, and some medium sized and then some smaller.

VAA: Growing up what did the American Bulldog took like in size, color, muzzle and bite?

JDJ: Well their was an awful lot of white, but their was some with a little color. Most of them had square heads and some had round. They all had a medium muzzle from 3" at most down. I always preferred about 2 1/2" muzzle. There were some big dogs then that went 130 lb. to 150 lb. and they were just straight bulldogs. For some reason they didn't always come the same size like some breeds. It depended a lot on what part of the South and how different towns and areas bred them some bred only smaller ones and some bred only big. If you would get one that was smaller and got one that was big and breed them together you would get some of each, just like you do today. After W.W. II if I would have been a rich man, I would have traveled far and wide and paid any price for bulldogs that would only have been large that resembled the big bulldog of my childhood. Instead I wasn't rich I was just a working man so I could only buy a few of the best from what I could find and afford, big, medium or small it was hard to find good bulldogs they were almost extinct. I was trying to preserve this breed as best I could, so I use only good Bulldogs that looked and reproduced good Bulldogs in all sizes.

VAA: Which of your dogs in recent times most resembles the American Bulldog of your youth?

JDJ: Well, there were some like the Machine line then but there were more like, Elrod, Johnson's Bo Donald
(AKA Big Buck) and my dog JDJ Big Buck, King Kong, Incredible Hercules Hulk and the Collette's. They were tall up on legs they had length, they had a square bulldog head, but back then they had to do things they don't have to do today. They had to be big strong and active enough. The dogs had to run from 25 to 30 mph to catch those wild dogs or catch bulls. So they had to be big to do what they were doing and more or less if you found some that were smaller they would be in town, people wanted them more as just pets. But the old working bulldog was big.

VAA: Who was your first registered stud dog?

JDJ: Well, the first one I registered was with the NBC-Dick the Bruiser (Also known as Tiny)

VAA: Were most American Bulldogs of your youth white?

JDJ: There were more white than there were colored dogs. I think people liked them to be white for some
reason. They always had some with color with a patch or two on the body or on the head. Things changed and people started liking more color.

VAA: Did your dogs start showing more color after you bred to Ma the Masher or West Champs High Hopes?

JDJ: Yes. I began getting more color after I bred to Ma the Masher. But I was glad, because I was hunting
more color since I would get so many people asking for more color even a little bit more. Now fifty years ago, I hardly ever got anything except solid white, maybe with just color on the eyes or something or another. I increased more color in my dogs way back then by breeding bulldogs with more color to bulldogs with more color. Color does not mean anything in these dogs it is just some people like more color and some like white. When I pick a puppy to keep for myself color has nothing to do with my decision at all. If I have a preference it would be a white dog with good pigment.

VAA: What do you think of an American Bulldog with less that 20% white?

JDJ: Well, it is very rare to get that much color and not typical for an American Bulldog. An American Bulldog is supposed to have a good deal of white. If you get a really good colored American Bulldog in every way, then you should breed it to a dog with less color. You can work it forward and backward, just like your size or just like you do your head, if your dogs get to small you breed to your bigger ones, if you get to much color breed them to white ones. But I've never seen that much color on a pure American Bulldog. If they have a lot of color they usually have mainly white on the head some white on the neck and chest, white on all four legs and belly and white on end of their tail.

VAA: Most people will agree that the fore-bearer of the American Bulldog was brought to this country over 200 years ago most with early settlers from England. It seems impossible to me that no other breed was mixed in to any degree like possibly the Boxer, Bullmastiff, Pit Bull Terrier, 20th century AKC Bulldog or Great Dane. It is old news that you bred to a throw back AKC Bulldog. "West Champs High Hopes" in the early seventies. Do you think it could have been possible that breeders that came along years before yourself could have made one or more of these crosses?

JDJ: It's possible, what happened before my time and before my dad's time, I know nothing about. I can just say that in my time the bulldogs of the South were big and very much like my dogs of today. But what they did over 200 years ago, they could have been other things put in that I know nothing about. I do know that all of the Mastiff breeds of dogs and they called. the English Bulldog, and American Bulldog a Mastiff type dog. They all really came from the Alaunt, from the Middle East. They were war dogs and were the forerunners of the Bulldog type or Mastiff type breeds such as the Boxer, Bullmastiff, Great Dane, Bulldog, English Mastiffs, Pit Bull and Terrier type St. Bernard, Newfoundland, Doge De Bordeaux, Neapolitan Mastiff, Spanish Mastiff etc.

VAA: West Champs High Hopes what page was he on in the book "The World of Fighting Dogs?"

JDJ: West Champs High Hopes .... I don't think he is in that book, but I believe Dave Leavitt is in there with a son of his, I think, out King's Lady Grace on page 261. He is a big broad-chested white dog.

VAA: He looks maybe about 90 lb. or so?

JDJ: I'm not sure but I would think he would be at least that because his sister that I keep weighed about that much.

VAA: I have spoken to David Leavitt myself and confirmed everything you told me about how he used two of your females to breed to West champs High Hopes. Which two females were they?

JDJ: One was King's Lady Grace the other was the original Sugar Doll, they called her Georgia Girl up there, they are both in the book "The World of Fighting Dogs.

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